Prop Hunt Maps

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Marshii
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Re: Prop Hunt Maps

Post by Marshii »

To to agree with Samba and Abra. Control is... well...

Aside from what Samba has mentioned already, I personally wouldn't have so many secret rooms as, in honesty, imo they don't add anything to the map other than an initial "Ooh, look at this; Ducks/Spy/Death with missing textures". I'd suggest having one at MAX and in that case if you go with death rooms, I'd recommend doing it the way Manorgrounds approached it whereby you don't automatically die by going into the room, but it poses a risk for those less experienced at jumping in lower gravity.

The main rooms themselves need, desperately need, some form of order to them, not just floating or sinking props, but also the way in which props are not aligned at all if in cluster; samba mentioned the walls, but it's also the same where you have big squares of computer metal box things. On a similar note; nodraw, use nodraw. This is one of the map maker's holy grails in terms of optimisation; placing nodraw ramps over things like stairs will make them smooth and easy to climb without the risk of losing all momentum when making a poorly timed jump.

The vents need to go, they are confusing as heck, I even found one corner off from the vents that had no lighting whatsoever which I think was another planned passageway with corners and I had to use noclip to get out. Other than that, having so many 'secret walls' just adds to confusing the player. I was running the vents swapping between hugging the left wall and right wall because I had no clue if there would be a secret, furthermore, there is nothing identifying the vents or secrets so orientation is impossible. I even found that I would get stuck on the walls sometimes when no secrets were there, I suspect this is likely due to perhaps a wall overextended by the smallest increment in the editor.

Contrary to Samba however, I do not feel a maze would be in the map's best interests. We already have a maze map. I honestly would suggest, now that you know what aesthetic and setting you are going for in your map, going right back to the drawing board and thinking about gameplay first, prophunt second. Look at the other great PH maps, they have landmarks and defined unique areas. Think about how the map will play on a timer. If it's going to be a big map, think of dead ends, avoid long empty passageways that just serve to bloat the map and confuse the player. Think of how a player can move from one 'area' to another and link them in more ways to create a map-level maze, rather than merely a few lower level walls that block vision.
Take nightclub for example, you have several rooms with different elevations, furthermore those rooms have at least 2 passageways between them so props aren't easily boxed in, but at the same time teams can work together to corner them, and equally the difference in the rooms acts as subtle orientation to the player so "He's in the yellow room, come help me" means something; if you see what I'm saying.
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sambawarkiddo
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Re: Prop Hunt Maps

Post by sambawarkiddo »

Marshii wrote: I'd suggest having one at MAX and in that case if you go with death rooms, I'd recommend doing it the way Manorgrounds approached it whereby you don't automatically die by going into the room, but it poses a risk for those less experienced at jumping in lower gravity.
I'd honestly forgotten that was considered a death room. Had to think about it for a second.
Marshii wrote:The main rooms themselves need, desperately need, some form of order to them, not just floating or sinking props, but also the way in which props are not aligned at all if in cluster; samba mentioned the walls, but it's also the same where you have big squares of computer metal box things. On a similar note; nodraw, use nodraw. This is one of the map maker's holy grails in terms of optimisation; placing nodraw ramps over things like stairs will make them smooth and easy to climb without the risk of losing all momentum when making a poorly timed jump.
As well as this, they're perfect for optimising a map. Granted the map itself is a mere 10mb as it uses basic TF2/Valve textures and resources already pre-packed when you install TF2. Every optimisation helps. Same can be said with cubemaps.
Marshii wrote:having so many 'secret walls' just adds to confusing the player. I was running the vents swapping between hugging the left wall and right wall because I had no clue if there would be a secret
I genuinely walked through the secret wall by accident. It was very confusing that the entire wall was false.
Marshii wrote:Contrary to Samba however, I do not feel a maze would be in the map's best interests. We already have a maze map.
I am not suggesting a maze per se. I'm suggesting the room be broken up with cubicles. Sort of like Cliffside (I think it is)'s cubicles, but I've used Maze as an example. Cubicles, but not walls extending from floor to ceiling. I would've used Ruins as an example, but even that would be a poor example, and I'm not that vain.
Last edited by sambawarkiddo on Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Marshii
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Re: Prop Hunt Maps

Post by Marshii »

I've also just had a look around Dust2.
Personally, I feel that it's an unholy mix of Farmfeud, Goodwater and Hilltop.
Personally, it feels a little small, confined and cramped. You could easily do a sweep of the whole map in probably about 40-60 seconds. Do we really need another slaughter house in prophunt?
Which is a shame really because I like the overall aesthetic of this rendition of dust2. I have a feeling if it was extended to the whole map plus a few additional areas not on the original dust2 (maybe mix bits from dust1 as well?), then perhaps it would be a more suitable scale.
I did also notice a few other oddities; some odd displacements in red spawn as well as a curious invisible wall over the long doors; it would make more sense to be able to fall through the gaps in the arches. I only had about 2 minutes to look at it, but that's my first impression.
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Abraham
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Re: Prop Hunt Maps

Post by Abraham »

Marshii wrote:I've also just had a look around Dust2.
Personally, I feel that it's an unholy mix of Farmfeud, Goodwater and Hilltop.
Personally, it feels a little small, confined and cramped. You could easily do a sweep of the whole map in probably about 40-60 seconds. Do we really need another slaughter house in prophunt?
Which is a shame really because I like the overall aesthetic of this rendition of dust2. I have a feeling if it was extended to the whole map plus a few additional areas not on the original dust2 (maybe mix bits from dust1 as well?), then perhaps it would be a more suitable scale.
I did also notice a few other oddities; some odd displacements in red spawn as well as a curious invisible wall over the long doors; it would make more sense to be able to fall through the gaps in the arches. I only had about 2 minutes to look at it, but that's my first impression.
I too felt like it was a bit too crowded at first, which is why I opened up a secondary roof area and widened the short area, I didnt want to make the short area too wide as it still is supposed to be a chokepoint on that map, and I dont want to change that.

My point as to why I dont think the map is a bad addition ; The map is extreamly easy to run around, as soon as you get to the roof area you have literally all the healthpacks at closerange, and you can get to the roof from several areas with a couple of jumps. There are also a lot of spots yet to be uncovered, considering all the windows and speakers are solid and you can walk on them, with the right prop they offer a lot more ideas for new spots.

If I would have any more knowledge and skill over hammer, I wouldve made the CT mid, B site and Tunnels on the map as well, but since I have no actual skill with hammer, I decided not to bother trying to spend loads of hours on something I have no certainty im able to do. Reason as to why I left the long door roof area closed was that I found it extreamly easy to get stuck there when I opened it and tested it at onepoint.

The odd displacements in redspawn, if youre talking about the brushes, I noticed them, but as it doesnt really affect the gameplay nor do I know how those things really work, I didnt want to mess things up any worse than that and left it as it was.

Im not going to argue, the map is small, but on both the v1 and the v2 the map is still favored by props with v1 being at 58% for props to win and v2 being at 62% for props to win. If anyone else knows and is willing to do the CT mid, B site and tunnel area to the map, id personally have nothing against it, nor do I think anyone else would argue either.

Also haven't heard complaints of the map after the latest update, people seemed to like the idea of having a CS themed map on TF2, and havent seemed to mind the small size of it. I know eventually there will be people to complain about the size and how the map is a slaughterhouse, but thats 90% of the maps we have, all it takes is for people to learn the map. I get the comparison of the map being a mix of Farmfeud and Hilltop, but dont understand how its similiar in any way with Goodwater, its a larger map that offers a lot more spots and areas to the gameplay than dust.
Last edited by Abraham on Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Marshii
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Re: Prop Hunt Maps

Post by Marshii »

I start my new job soon so I don't know how much time I'll have, but I don't mind having a stab at CT, mid and tunnels if you want to drop me the hammer file :)
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Abraham
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Re: Prop Hunt Maps

Post by Abraham »

Marshii wrote:I start my new job soon so I don't know how much time I'll have, but I don't mind having a stab at CT, mid and tunnels if you want to drop me the hammer file :)
Thanks for the offer, but actually already got someone working on it, ill let you know if it doesnt work out tho.
Last edited by Abraham on Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bench
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Re: Prop Hunt Maps

Post by Bench »

Problems with draft
http://imgur.com/7vJOgWR
No texture on the cliff edge, same on both sides. Blue side has a ledge that you can stand on

http://imgur.com/qoAbpzL
Wall with no texture on red side, makes you able to see the secret room if you are in thirdperson and are on top of the light.
Last edited by Bench on Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Abraham
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Re: Prop Hunt Maps

Post by Abraham »

Bench wrote:Problems with draft
http://imgur.com/7vJOgWR
No texture on the cliff edge, same on both sides. Blue side has a ledge that you can stand on

http://imgur.com/qoAbpzL
Wall with no texture on red side, makes you able to see the secret room if you are in thirdperson and are on top of the light.
Ill be fixing these tomorrow, if anyone else has any suggestions/things in need to be fixed please message me or post here before I send the fixed version to Fire

The gap above redspawn, even though you can use it in your advantage on red team, I dont find it effecting the gameplay too much nor do I think its worth it for me to recompile the map with the piece of shit CPU that I have spending 30-45minutes doing so, and then send it to Fire so he can switch the map to that one just for that one small gap. I added texture on that gap but before there is something else that needs to be done with the map, I wont be recompiling it.

Since my skills with hammer arent good enough to fix those gaps by the cliff, without making it look ridiculous, and theyre not gamebreaking in any way as they dont effect the gameplay, I decided to leave them like they were. Im sorry but these "fixes" have no effect on the gameplay and are just to make the map look nicer, which in the end doesnt even matter, im not sure why the original creator left these gaps here, but I wont be the one who can fix them, nor will I spend the time trying to learn how to fix them since as I said, they dont effect the gameplay as the areas are closed off by a playerclip.

Now if there is there is something wrong with the map that actually effects the gameplay on the server, and doesnt inclued people no clipping around, id be more than happy to atleast try my best to fix them and if im not able, id ask someone else to do it for me.
Last edited by Abraham on Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:57 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Yang Xaio Long
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Re: Prop Hunt Maps

Post by Yang Xaio Long »

Hi all thanks for the feedback on ph_control will get to work on the problems ASAP, I will release another version when I feel that the problems have been fixed.
I have been working on a jungle themed map but that will probably be unreleased as testing has been.... "irritating" is a nice way of putting it so my skills as a map maker have improved slightly
Again thanks for the feedback it is very much appreciated :thumbup:
sambawarkiddo wrote:I honestly don't understand why the cables in that room have clipping/Vphysics. That's just absurd.
The wires... I honestly thought I'd disabled the "VPhysics" on them :crazy: oh well guess I forgot to xD I guess that's Valve for you.
sambawarkiddo wrote:...There is a chair floating in midair...and one IN the ground...wat...
I must have missed this on the last compile of the map :^) Thanks for letting me know about this lol

Will be going offline again to fix all this. Will be back next week to see any updates on this thread.
Last edited by Yang Xaio Long on Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Yang Xaio Long
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Re: Prop Hunt Maps

Post by Yang Xaio Long »

Hi all, those that actually still interested in "ph_control" I have taken the time to create a C4/C4A version

That can be found HERE

NOTE:-
*I don't properly know how to "optimize" a map. I have only done what I know to the best of my ability. I don't know how to utilize Areaportals, hint, skip.
*This current release is just a load more test ideas.

I haven't been able to test it for about 5 weeks and am honestly giving up on developing this map as I want to do other things such as play Dragon Quest IX.

If you wish to see this "completed" then I have left the files needed in the rar archive.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I will be back when I can make more time on my scheduele
Last edited by Yang Xaio Long on Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Edit 23/11/21: What d'ya want? If you're here from 2021 and beyond and you want to find me, you can find me at → speedrun.com/user/Mr.Blonde ←

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