[VSH] Increase CBS Knockback Immunity?
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:51 pm
I'm going to start off by saying that previously, all 4 hales on the VSH server used to take less knockback, with Saxton Hale having pretty good knockback resistance. At some point, the knockback resistance on all the hales were nerfed and get knocked around more easily. I'll make a summary of my opinion of the knockback on the 4 bosses. Admittedly, I was annoyed earlier today over knockback when I was playing CBS, but I'm doing my best not to let my annoyance over that skew my viewpoint:
Saxton Hale: knockback, while greater now, still isn't too bad. You won't get knocked around a ridiculous amount and even if there's multiple sentries and other sources piling knockback on him, his rage can break out of that okay provided he can get close enough to the sentry nest etc. So I believe this is alright.
Vagineer: He used to take moderate knockback in the first place. Now he takes a lot. Easier to get juggled around and can get irritating, making it harder to land hits on some classes you're pursuing as you're getting juggled, and harder to approach nests. Since his rage is a stun (shorter AOE than Saxton, but larger than CBS) and he gets uber however, his rage kinda mitigates that, not to mention if a pyro is nearby airblasting, that both feeds rage and extends his current rage, making them less of a problem, so overall I think this is passable, just not good for no rage runs, although only the minority do no rage runs.
HHHJ: Also used to take a fair bit of knockback, and now the knockback is pretty noticeable. However the knockback is not as strong as Vagineer/CBS I believe, and his rage has a decent sized stun area and can teleport, so even if he is getting knocked about by sentries etc. he can teleport to the nest and rage or if possible just walk up to it and rage the nest, so this is alright. While also not great for no rage runs (also because of being a teleport boss, not a super jump boss, to be fair), again only the minority do them including myself. I must consider the majority.
CBS: This is the one I have a problem with. Used to take moderate knockback, now takes a ton of knockback like Vagineer. Very easy to get juggled around and makes it difficult to land melee hits when attacking groups of people if knockback is shoving you around a lot. I believe CBS also has the shortest melee range of the 4 hales, so you need to get a bit closer to someone to land a melee hit. What makes CBS' knockback a problem and Vagineer's not in my opinion, is that CBS' rage is only a short range stun in which the amount of people who can get stunned is also limited to a low number from what I know (need elaboration on this), and while he does get arrows and some knockback resistance, the knockback is still moderate, and when he's getting juggled in a tight/crowded space with a lot of players around, his rage is bad at breaking crowd control, and the knockback he takes in that situation can also make it difficult to make accurate shots with the huntsman, which is only mitigated by the amount of shots he gets when there's a lot of players alive, and if he can get out of there without taking too much damage and start shooting his arrows from a distance.
What I'm suggesting is for CBS to have some more knockback immunity. Not a ridiculous buff, and maybe not even buffed to Saxton Hale's current knockback immunity, but just enough of a buff so he doesn't get juggled around too much and can more reliably land hits without being shoved around too much, more so when it comes to smaller maps or maps with a lot of tight spaces, or up against certain classes and loadouts that can abuse the high knockback CBS takes.
And yes, if you're good enough at hale in general, you can overcome even absurd knockback to a reasonable extent, but playing a hale with a ton of knockback and a rage that isn't too effective at dealing with that isn't too good in my view, and I believe for the majority of players who play hale, the knockback that CBS takes is a bit too much and needs to be toned down a little.
I don't usually make suggestions and this is my first time making one in a long while, so sorry if this suggestion ain't too great and/or is poorly structured. And as a reminder, all of this is simply my view in the end. I want to see if people agree or disagree with this (or somewhere in-between) and discuss it more. Maybe the other bosses should also get more knockback immunity? Maybe it's fine as it is and nothing needs to be changed? Wanna hear from you guys. I'm a bit sleep deprived right now too so I probably didn't explain it all the best way lol.
Saxton Hale: knockback, while greater now, still isn't too bad. You won't get knocked around a ridiculous amount and even if there's multiple sentries and other sources piling knockback on him, his rage can break out of that okay provided he can get close enough to the sentry nest etc. So I believe this is alright.
Vagineer: He used to take moderate knockback in the first place. Now he takes a lot. Easier to get juggled around and can get irritating, making it harder to land hits on some classes you're pursuing as you're getting juggled, and harder to approach nests. Since his rage is a stun (shorter AOE than Saxton, but larger than CBS) and he gets uber however, his rage kinda mitigates that, not to mention if a pyro is nearby airblasting, that both feeds rage and extends his current rage, making them less of a problem, so overall I think this is passable, just not good for no rage runs, although only the minority do no rage runs.
HHHJ: Also used to take a fair bit of knockback, and now the knockback is pretty noticeable. However the knockback is not as strong as Vagineer/CBS I believe, and his rage has a decent sized stun area and can teleport, so even if he is getting knocked about by sentries etc. he can teleport to the nest and rage or if possible just walk up to it and rage the nest, so this is alright. While also not great for no rage runs (also because of being a teleport boss, not a super jump boss, to be fair), again only the minority do them including myself. I must consider the majority.
CBS: This is the one I have a problem with. Used to take moderate knockback, now takes a ton of knockback like Vagineer. Very easy to get juggled around and makes it difficult to land melee hits when attacking groups of people if knockback is shoving you around a lot. I believe CBS also has the shortest melee range of the 4 hales, so you need to get a bit closer to someone to land a melee hit. What makes CBS' knockback a problem and Vagineer's not in my opinion, is that CBS' rage is only a short range stun in which the amount of people who can get stunned is also limited to a low number from what I know (need elaboration on this), and while he does get arrows and some knockback resistance, the knockback is still moderate, and when he's getting juggled in a tight/crowded space with a lot of players around, his rage is bad at breaking crowd control, and the knockback he takes in that situation can also make it difficult to make accurate shots with the huntsman, which is only mitigated by the amount of shots he gets when there's a lot of players alive, and if he can get out of there without taking too much damage and start shooting his arrows from a distance.
What I'm suggesting is for CBS to have some more knockback immunity. Not a ridiculous buff, and maybe not even buffed to Saxton Hale's current knockback immunity, but just enough of a buff so he doesn't get juggled around too much and can more reliably land hits without being shoved around too much, more so when it comes to smaller maps or maps with a lot of tight spaces, or up against certain classes and loadouts that can abuse the high knockback CBS takes.
And yes, if you're good enough at hale in general, you can overcome even absurd knockback to a reasonable extent, but playing a hale with a ton of knockback and a rage that isn't too effective at dealing with that isn't too good in my view, and I believe for the majority of players who play hale, the knockback that CBS takes is a bit too much and needs to be toned down a little.
I don't usually make suggestions and this is my first time making one in a long while, so sorry if this suggestion ain't too great and/or is poorly structured. And as a reminder, all of this is simply my view in the end. I want to see if people agree or disagree with this (or somewhere in-between) and discuss it more. Maybe the other bosses should also get more knockback immunity? Maybe it's fine as it is and nothing needs to be changed? Wanna hear from you guys. I'm a bit sleep deprived right now too so I probably didn't explain it all the best way lol.